October 2017 Episode of Solidarity Is This

SIT_Podcast

THE IMPACT OF TRAUMA AND CRISIS RESPONSE WORK

Deepa Iyer and guest Miriam Zoila Pérez discuss the impact of trauma in social justice spaces, and how activists can sustain themselves for the long haul.

Learn more about Pérez on their website and on their Radical Doula blog.

"People's ability to be well in this moment is 100% related to the political environment, particularly when we're talking about people of color."

Miriam Zoila Pérez

Deepa Iyer:

Hey, everyone. This is Deepa Iyer and I'm so excited to welcome you to another episode of the Solidarity Is This Podcast. So if you're joining us for the first time this is a podcast that features people who are experimenting with and thinking about solidarity practice, especially in our changing racial landscape and in a national and political climate of vitriol, a time when solidarity practice is more important than ever. You can check out previous podcasts on iTunes and other podcast platforms and you can also check out a solidarity syllabus that accompanies each podcast episode over at www dot solidarity is dot org.

Deepa Iyer:

This is actually our fourth podcast, believe it or not. In the past I've talked to people like Ramla Shahid, a Somali community leader in San Diego, who explained how the Muslim man is affecting refugees. I've talked to an Indian-American student at the University of Virginia who came face to face with the white nationalist march in Charlottesville and much more. I hope that you'll check out the previous episodes, subscribe, like, comment and more.

Deepa Iyer:

Today I'm really excited to have an in studio guest, so to speak. I am joined by Miriam Zoila Perez, whom I met a few years ago. Perez, you actually wrote a piece about we too sing America for Colorlines.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

I did, yes.

Deepa Iyer:

Yeah.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

That was awesome.

Deepa Iyer:

So a little bit about Perez. I'm going to brag on you a little bit and then we'll get talking.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Oh, thank you.

Deepa Iyer:

So, at Colorlines Perez writes about gender, health and race and if you don't check out Colorlines on a daily basis you should for news that really has a lens around race and gender and immigration status and much more. Perez has worked in the reproductive rights movement for many years as well including at the National Latina Institute for Reproductive Health, speaks regularly at colleges and universities, co hosts a Latinx music podcast and was a 2010 Lambda Literary Foundation Emerging LGBT voice in non-fiction. And Perez is a doula.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

So many things.

Deepa Iyer:

Perez.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

I have a lot of hustles.

Deepa Iyer:

I do a lot of things.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

I know.

Deepa Iyer:

And I hustle. But that's really impressive.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Thank you.

Deepa Iyer:

I'm going to have to ask if you're a Gemini.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Thank you. I am a Gemini.

Deepa Iyer:

Yah.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Are you a Gemini?

Deepa Iyer:

I'm not.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Oh.

Deepa Iyer:

But I'm sort of into astrology a little bit.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Oh, that's awesome.

Deepa Iyer:

And Perez and I have connected on a number of things. I mean, for one thing, we both have an affiliation with Race Forward, which is a national racial justice organization. Perez is also working with the new Oxalis Collective here in DC, which I'm really excited to talk more about and learn more about. So I know you do a lot of different things, Perez, but tell us a little bit about what motivates you to keep doing movement work.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

I don't know. I don't think I've ever really thought about not doing it. It's just been my orientation to life, a little bit. You know even like since college, I guess just a fundamental desire to question how things are and to look toward how they could be different. So I feel like fundamentally that's activist work. And then the movement, like Big M ends up being more about how do you make a living and where do you situation in that? So I've been very inside of it and also more outside of it writing about it and also more outside supporting people's work through different types of consulting and now with the Oxalis work. So I think after the election I was like is there another life?

Deepa Iyer:

Right.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Is there another life that's not about politics because it was so traumatic to just think about what we were going to face and what we are facing.

Deepa Iyer:

So you know this, Perez, but just for folks who might be listening. This month, September, I wrote a piece on the 16th anniversary of 9/11 and I usually do tend to write about 9/11 because some folks might know that it was a real watershed moment for me. It was a turning point and it's when I decided full force that I wanted to be in movement work and working with South Asian communities in particular. And I usually write about the anniversary and the impact on community but this year I decided to dig a little bit deeper to actually talk about the impact of working with communities for 16 years and what the impact is on activists who come from those same communities.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Right. Yeah.

Deepa Iyer:

So a lot of people sometimes talk about burnout or compassion fatigue or even vicarious trauma.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Right.

Deepa Iyer:

But I'm interested in well, what if it's not vicarious, right?

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Yeah.

Deepa Iyer:

What if it's actually about your uncles and aunties and your brothers and sisters and people who look like you?

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Yeah, your experience. Yeah. Right.

Deepa Iyer:

It could be you.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Right.

Deepa Iyer:

So we're talking about hate [inaudible 00:04:26], deportations, profiling, surveillance and what is the impact on activists who have been doing that for 16 years?

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Totally.

Deepa Iyer:

What is the impact on organizations?

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Right.

Deepa Iyer:

So they're kind of in crisis culture.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Oh, for sure.

Deepa Iyer:

Constant rapid response and what does healing have to do with it?

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Yeah, totally.

Deepa Iyer:

So those are the big questions that we're going to try to get to.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

It was such a great piece. Folks should definitely read it.

Deepa Iyer:

Thank you.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

It's on Medium. I don't know if you'll put a link with this episode or something.

Deepa Iyer:

Yeah. Yeah, I will absolutely on our website.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Yeah.

Deepa Iyer:

Solidarity is dot org.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Awesome.

Deepa Iyer:

But I wanted to ask you a little bit about since you are now, I guess, doing healing work more, um, intently or focusing on it a little bit more, right?

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Mm-hmm.

Deepa Iyer:

Why do you think we have such a blind spot when it comes to even talk about trauma and healing in social justice organizations?

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Well like what you just explained about like the idea of vicarious trauma assumes that you are not part of the group that you are working with, right? It's like this like I'm coming in to help this marginalized community and so I might experience trauma through supporting them but I'm not affected by what they're affected by. Stuff like that comes from a particular approach to this work that is like a salvation, like sort of white savior kind of thing, right?

Deepa Iyer:

Yes.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Like I'm coming into a community that's not mine. So I think that whole concept needs to be reexamined when we're talking about people who are actually part of the communities that they are working with and I think that's become much more common in social justice movements as they've shifted and changed and diversified and the approach has really changed. So I think that's probably part of why the conversation about trauma is becoming more centers because it's their lived experience.

Deepa Iyer:

It is.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

It's not just their 9:00 to 5:00.

Deepa Iyer:

Right.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

It's what happens when they walk out the door.

Deepa Iyer:

For me I also often feel like well how could I even talk about how I'm affected when there are people who are directly experiencing hate violence, right?

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Right.

Deepa Iyer:

What right do I have to even express it?

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Like someone's always worse.

Deepa Iyer:

Yes. Yeah, at some level.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

[inaudible 00:06:20].

Deepa Iyer:

So you feel guilty about even talking about it.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Right. Yeah, I mean I think it's a complicated but important thing to dance around, right, or to work with is we are all susceptible to the impact to the world we live in even if they're not like my livelihood is not at stake in this moment. That doesn't mean that I'm not impacted by the fear of it, by the experience of it around me, by the people around me. And so yeah, I don't think you have to be the world's most marginalized person to experience, right or to deserve to take care of yourself.

Deepa Iyer:

To deserve, yeah.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

And also if you don't you are not of service. You can't be of service.

Deepa Iyer:

Right.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

And oftentimes people perpetuate harm, right? There's so much harm within these communities and our institutions because people are just totally not taking care of their side of the street.

Deepa Iyer:

Taking care of themselves. Right.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Right, yeah. And so if we think of that as indulgence we're really doing ourselves a huge disservice. And obviously there are ways to do it in indulgent ways and there are ways to make it all about you as a person with more-

Deepa Iyer:

Right, no you have to be self aware.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Yeah. That can't be unchecked but we should not shy away from it entirely and I'm glad that it's becoming more of a conversation even though it's born out of a lot of struggle for people.

Deepa Iyer:

Yeah. I think it's like we have to give ourselves permission and be okay with it.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Yeah. Right.

Deepa Iyer:

So if we don't address trauma, right, direct trauma or vicarious trauma of working in movement, working as organizers, as activists, as even people who write about communities but are from the same communities. How have you seen that trauma show up in people's lives? And then we'll talk about the organization space.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Right. People have a lot of trauma just from life in general, right? Some if it's from the activist work but a lot of, I think, what people are bringing is family system stuff, right? And that was informed by people's experiences too and immigration and race and class. So it's not just about the political experiences but also just what are people bring from their childhoods that are playing into the dynamics? So the Oxalis Collective is me and Richael Faithful and Karen L Culpepper and-

Deepa Iyer:

Who are amazing, all amazing people.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Who are amazing folks, right. Who are also healers and people of color and also activists. And so we decided to come together to offer healing and wellness curriculum and support to activist groups. And so some of the things that we've seen just in the couple of months of doing this, a lot of it shows up as physical ailments, right? People are really sick.

Deepa Iyer:

Right.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Migraines, stomach issues, organ failure.

Deepa Iyer:

Insomnia.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Insomnia. It's amazing the kind of things that people are dealing with just in their physical bodies that I think is a manifestation and related to people's emotional wellbeing. So that's one huge way it shows up is just are people well at all? And the concept of wellness needs to be challenged a little bit because there is no one ideal for what wellness or health looks like and everybody has their own set of conditions that structure that. But there is a range, right, within somebody's wellbeing of what is them being well and what is them not being well, right, within the things that they have some access to. And then a huge thing is just how do people treat each other?

Deepa Iyer:

Right.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Right? And hurt people hurt people, right, and that's so true especially in the context of this work because we bring our whole selves to it because oftentimes it's about who we are, which makes us really vulnerable, I think. And I've experienced that like really traumatic activist work environments where because I brought my whole being to it it felt very traumatic when I was mistreated, right? So it wasn't just... Imagine if I had been in a corporate environment it would've been hard but it would've been a lot less wounding because I was-

Deepa Iyer:

Plus you're also not going bring your whole self into an environment like that. Yeah.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Right. I'm not going to bring my whole self and there's no pretense that we're all in it because we care, like this is our lives, right?

Deepa Iyer:

So we talked a little bit about how it shows up in our physical bodies, right?

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Yeah.

Deepa Iyer:

And then we started talking a little bit about how it also shows up in the way that we treat each other and in organizational space.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Totally.

Deepa Iyer:

So I wanted to read to you this quote that I put into the piece that I had written from Darakshan Raja, who's the interim executive director of the Washington Peace Center and the co-chair of the DC Justice for Muslims Coalition. And this is what she told me. She said, "I have seen many activists including myself go through phases of trauma from numbness, fear, survivor's guilt, anxiety, fatigue and stress. When you're positioned as someone who's expected to have the answers for how to respond many of us cope by pushing our own emotions away to clear our minds in order to respond. I think many people in our movement spaces are expected to show resilience, clarity and direction but we aren't given the spaces to be a hot mess or to find the support to process the trauma we walk into the work with and the trauma incurred from movement spaces."

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

So real.

Deepa Iyer:

I felt like that really gelled everything in that four sentences.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

I know, I know. Yeah. It's totally true and I really appreciate her perspective. Yeah, that's exactly it.

Deepa Iyer:

Yeah. I know. Deep breath like thinking about that.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

I know. Yeah. That's part of it, right, is like how do we actually be present with what it feels like to even think and talk about these things.

Deepa Iyer:

Yeah.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

It's an embodied experience.

Deepa Iyer:

I think she talks later about how in movement spaces what happens is that people don't trust each other and that people make assumptions about each other. So I was an executive director for 10 years and I can say that I failed many, many times in not creating spaces at the organization where people could bring their whole selves or could express themselves.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Right.

Deepa Iyer:

And I think part of it was because of this rapid response culture, it's crisis response constantly after 9/11.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Yeah.

Deepa Iyer:

And also feeling that I always had to be on and know what to do, which wasn't the case because I didn't know what to do. I wasn't really trained to be an executive director. There's no school for that.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Right. No.

Deepa Iyer:

So I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about when you all at Oxalis have been working with, and I know you've been working with organizations, you've been in movement spaces. What are the some of the trends that you're seeing come up? Are they similar to the ones that Darakshan and I just talked about in terms of trust and having to be in crisis response? How do you intervene in those sorts of situations?

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Yeah. You know I've been surprised that while you would imagine that the most traumatic thing right now is like the political environment, actually there's so much internal difficulties in their organizations that that's actually more, and obviously they're related to each other, right? People's ability to be well in this moment is 100% related to the political environment, particularly when we're talking about people of color.

Deepa Iyer:

Right.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

But the predominant issue people are talking about isn't like what's going on but actually what's going in the little microcosm that is related to political environment but also-

Deepa Iyer:

And it's exacerbated by the political climate for sure.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

It's exacerbated by it but it predated too, right?

Deepa Iyer:

That's true. And I think it worsened it. We weren't dealing with it then very well or had band-aids and now with what we're dealing with now it stirred the pot more.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Right, stirred the pot. People are in extreme levels of distress whereas before it was maybe moderate levels of stress.

Deepa Iyer:

Yes, exactly.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

And also a feeling of helplessness now. I think that's something I've really struggled with is just feeling kind of powerless and also really afraid of how things are going to unfold.

Deepa Iyer:

Yeah.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

And I totally recognize that that's not a new experience for a lot of people and that's not new with the election. That's just my own orientation to it.

Deepa Iyer:

Yeah, I feel that too.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

But yeah, I think the interventions are diverse, right? There's lots of ways to intervene and I think it's important because I think of the fear, like what you mentioned about being an ED and wanting to be on all the time and not creating space for people to bring their whole selves. Well there's going too far in that direction is a thing too, right?

Deepa Iyer:

Yes.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

So you don't want to create environments where it's totally unboundaried, where people are playing out their shit at work. There are certain things that institutions should deal with and there are certain things that individuals have to deal with outside of institutions. So how do you create environment for people to find that balance?

Deepa Iyer:

That's so well said. I completely agree. Because a lot of times it's... I used to feel and I still feel in organizations that I'm connected to that sometimes all of us act like it's our family dinner table or something and it's really not.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Right.

Deepa Iyer:

We are a family but we're not in that way a family.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Not in that way, yeah. And that can perpetuate harm too, right, if there's boundaries around what people share and how and with whom and under what context. So a lot of what we've been working on at Oxalis is giving opportunities to reflect on their own experience individually, in groups without leaning on intellectual processing as the primary form. Because I think our groups are so... We're very intellectual people.

Deepa Iyer:

Up here, yeah.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

And so I think our tendency is to go there and that is not always the best, most effective or useful way of actually getting in touch with how you feel, nor doing anything about it, like sitting around a table talking about how you feel is not necessarily the best way. So we recently facilitated a five day retreat for an activist group and very few of those exercises over the five days involved group verbal processing.

Deepa Iyer:

Oh, really? So was it more movement or writing?

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

So yeah, we did a ton of different things. So there was some silence, meditations and reflections. There was some writing. We did some letter writing exercises where people wrote a letter actually to themselves now from themselves six months from now as a way to try to give some reflection but also perhaps maybe get some insight from your future, better self.

Deepa Iyer:

That's great.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

There was small group stuff. So giving people an opportunity to process but not necessarily in the big group. We didn't have any really intense movement stuff but a lot of literally just like okay, let's stand up now and let's stretch and let's get really big and let's take a big exhale and let's touch the ground. Really small movement things and I would do that often if there was a moment that felt really charged. I was like, "Okay, let's just stop for a second. Let's take a breath together. Let's exhale together audibly. Let's all sigh together." Just as a way to release some of the energy people are feeling, acknowledge that it's charged. Maybe not everybody is sensitive to that but some people are. Give people a second to be like all right, what's my body feel like? So that was a lot of it was just... And giving people small entry points into thinking about their experience and talking about. There was also a ton of herbal support. So Karen is an herbalist and amazing around plant medicine, plant [inaudible 00:16:33] medicine.

Deepa Iyer:

Yes, she is.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

So she had a ton of herbal supports in the room the whole time. So there was a tea station with custom tea blends for different kind of how people are feeling and then tinctures.

Deepa Iyer:

Right.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

So that was a huge part of it. There were plants in the space, live plants. So yeah, it's just a million different things.

Deepa Iyer:

If you all are in DC I'm telling you you're so lucky because I've actually had the honor of working with Richael, Karen and Perez and I can just say that all of them are amazing so please check out Oxalis Collective, which the website is.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Oxalis collective dot com.

Deepa Iyer:

Yes, please check them out. Especially both individuals but also organizations. So I think we've been talking about it but I want to lean into some of the, and they're not solutions, right, or interventions? I don't like those words necessarily but ways in which we can shift. We talked about the need to acknowledge and talk about trauma but then also to set up different ways of relating with each other, both individually but also in an organization space.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Yeah.

Deepa Iyer:

So I wanted to talk about how we do that beyond what you've mentioned already. One thing that I get very frustrated with is this whole prescriptive of self care. One it's not actually affordable or accessible to a whole lot of people to be like oh, take a mental health day or go get a spa day or whatever.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Right.

Deepa Iyer:

And it doesn't actually, again, help people understand that you sometimes need to process, right? Sit and process either verbally or within yourself.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Right, right.

Deepa Iyer:

So I think this idea of community care, which is not anything new, but is way more important. It could be as part of your organizational space very deliberately or even the field or the community of activists.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Right.

Deepa Iyer:

So wanted to have you talk a little bit about that. Why is community care important as opposed to just self care on it's own?

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Right. And we definitely, in Oxalis, thinking a lot about pushing back on the idea of self care because it is so stigmatized as this luxury thing.

Deepa Iyer:

Yeah.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Right, like self care is going to get a pedicure is self care is going to get a massage, which if those things are nurturing to you they can be self care but they don't have to be luxury commodities either. For me I think anything that is nurturing to yourself and it doesn't have to be alone but for me the bottom line is having an awareness of what do I need right now and giving it to yourself in a kind, intentional way. So that could be anything including I'm going to lie down on the floor, things that don't cost any money, right?

Deepa Iyer:

Right.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

I'm going to watch TV but doing it in an intentional like this is actually a thing I'm going to do because it's what I need right now not just a mindless experience of it, right?

Deepa Iyer:

Right, to get away from it.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

To get away.

Deepa Iyer:

Yeah.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

So drinking water, eating food, sleeping, things that are not luxuries that have to be put on the calendar can also be a way of taking care of yourself. And yeah, they don't have to be done alone so I think [inaudible 00:19:22] wrote a piece about squad care, right?

Deepa Iyer:

Squad care, yeah.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Or community care or anything, right? That these are actually practices that we should be doing not necessarily with other people but in conversation with other people and relationship with other people. And that's something that my community in DC has been much better about. Really it started with Pulse and what happened in Orlando and that tragedy because so many of us felt really just directly traumatized by that despite not having necessarily people who were involved but being queer and Latinx. And the three days before it happened I was at queer Latino pride in DC so it felt like okay, I was at a party that was this party a few days later in a different place.

Deepa Iyer:

Right.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

So it felt very close to home. So that tragedy actually started some deeper bonds within people that I already knew. And then the election happened and it was another moment of solidifying that and being more intentional about being in conversation with each other about what are people doing, what do people need, how do we support each other? So it can be very simple in a lot of ways.

Deepa Iyer:

It is actually and I think that people have been practicing it for quite some time and are calling it all these things.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Right, yeah.

Deepa Iyer:

When I was reading, and this is in the... It'll be part of the solidarity syllabus on the website. But this thing about creating healing justice circles and how we do that and there's a guide that folks in Indigenous and the movement for Black lives and others have put together. It is actually very simple. It's very intuitive when you read through it but it also gives you step by step instructions on how to do it both in a non-profit space and outside of. So hope people will check that out too.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

[inaudible 00:20:50] intention, right? Like are you bringing an intention to this that is about letting people be aware of what's going on for them and figure out what to do about it?

Deepa Iyer:

Yeah.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

It's really basic but yeah, I appreciate that resource too.

Deepa Iyer:

And then beyond the individual and we've talked a lot about what individuals can do. As someone who led an organization for some time I think a lot about what institutions and funders should also be doing, right, and I think it's really important to make sure that people have access to alternative healthcare. It's something that interestingly a lot of organizations just shy away from or don't prioritize. Also important for funders to get actually I think support collectives like what you all are doing because especially as philanthropy supports organizations that are expected to go into rapid response what is happening now, there's also got to be ways to support those activists so that they can enter into the spaces that you all are creating too.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Right. So they can keep doing this work and not be suffering so much. Yeah, it's totally true.

Deepa Iyer:

So I guess kind of as we get to our closing, I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about what you're hoping that folks who are connected to the work that you're doing will get out of it both individually but also for their movements and their organizations. What are your desired outcomes, so to speak?

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Yeah, that's a great question. I think one of the challenges that I want to mention is just the structures in which we're working that they are built in power hierarchies that are not equitable and there's money involved, all these different dynamics that add to the challenge of trying to create an environment where people can take care of themselves and totally show up in the context of well, you're also an employee and there's also reviews and some people get fired and some people get promoted. So I don't want to pretend it's easy to bring all of that into... A family system has a structure where there's power hierarchies so it's challenging. So does an institution. So I don't know what the institutional answer is to what does it look like to build a different type of institution. But I think you have to be aware of that, right? That you can't ever strip away those dynamics so how do you within that still create room for people to take care of themselves? So I think that's really important. I think what we are hoping people get out of this and I want to mention we also just launched a podcast called Tonic.

Deepa Iyer:

Yeah, tell us about that. I love the title, Tonic.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Yeah, it's called Tonic and it's a healing advice podcast. And it's really just another offering for folks to ask questions. Specifically we're inviting people to send us questions via voice memo to tonic podcast at Gmail dot com.

Deepa Iyer:

Okay.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

With questions about what they're struggling with.

Deepa Iyer:

I love that.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Yeah. So it's really just us trying to offer and we all have really different expertise and modalities. Like I mentioned Karen's really focused on plants and herbs and Richael is an energy worker and a shaman and has a lot of gifts around ancestral work and really beautiful stuff. And then I'm kind of a hodgepodge of being more focused on bodies and mindfulness and also background as a doula and a bunch of different things. I really love plants. So yeah, being able to offer people some guidance just from a bunch of different perspectives grounded in this idea to get free we have to be well, right? That there isn't really a other option, I think, for many of us.

Deepa Iyer:

And I know that there are people who listen to this podcast who are actually new to non-profit work or spaces and may not have decision making authority in your organization so to speak. But I really want to encourage folks to actually even suggest the Oxalis Collective if you're in DC but other entities like yours. There are many folks-

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Yeah, there are more folks doing this work. Yeah. And we are happy to work with folks outside of DC too.

Deepa Iyer:

Around the country, yeah.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Yeah. But yeah there's definitely folks who are doing this. I know Harriet's Apothecary is another one Black woman run healing group in Brooklyn.

Deepa Iyer:

Right, amazing. Brooklyn.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

And the other thing I'll mention is we've done one webinar. We're going to be doing more to try to get people, especially people who don't have decision making capacity in the organization who can't say let's work with this group to give folks tools. So we did one earlier this summer just about an introduction to bringing healing into activist spaces. And then Richael's got one coming up at the end of the month about connecting with your ancestors in this work.

Deepa Iyer:

Oh, that's great.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Yeah. And then Karen's got one in the works about plant medicine. So that's another way that we're hoping people can access this information. It's like a sliding scale starting at $10, kind of thing to give people little bits and pieces. Because you don't have to be the ED I think to shift your own experience.

Deepa Iyer:

Right. That's exactly right. Yeah.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Within the control you have.

Deepa Iyer:

And to even introduce the option that there are these resources that exist and can we bring them into a staff retreat even?

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Right, exactly, exactly.

Deepa Iyer:

People I think should really think about how to integrate that and not feel like it has to come from the top. Well, thank you so much, Perez, for joining me on our podcast.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

You're so welcome. Yeah.

Deepa Iyer:

I feel like we barely scratched the surface. I could talk for a couple of hours about this.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

I know. Thank you so much for having me and I really appreciate you and the work you're doing and I'm really glad that you're friends have pushed you to think about your own wellbeing because there's no other way.

Deepa Iyer:

Yeah, no I agree and I've been reading a lot and thinking a lot and processing and I want to recommend books like Trauma Stewardship. There's a Trauma Stewardship Institute. There is the Healing Justice Circle guide I mentioned and then the Tonic podcast and www dot Oxalis Collective dot com are all resources that folks should definitely check out. And this is just a conversation that is not ending, right? This is an ongoing conversation and I'm hoping that we can continue to talk about these issues as we bring activists onto this podcast. I think one of the things we'll talk about is how are you doing really? And how are you dealing with-

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Right, that's so great. And what are you doing to sustain yourself?

Deepa Iyer:

Yeah. So we can learn-

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

We can learn a lot from other people's experiences, right? They don't have to be a healer.

Deepa Iyer:

Exactly.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Everybody's got resilience tactics that they're already using and maybe not even aware of that that's what that looks like.

Deepa Iyer:

Yeah. Or we can dip into that well of resilience from, like you said, our ancestors and others, right?

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Yeah.

Deepa Iyer:

Yes. So with that thank you for being here.

Miriam Zoila Pérez:

Thank you so much for having me.

Deepa Iyer:

You'll find more information about Perez' work, the collective that Perez is involved with and more resources on trauma and activism over at www dot solidarity is dot org.

Deepa Iyer:

As we close out this episode I wanted to take a moment to bring your attention to two issues that are near and dear to my heart. The first is around the DACA program, which is a program that provides undocumented immigrant youth with the right to live and work in this country and be free from deportation. We actually heard about the efforts to preserve DACA from Patrice Lawrence who's with the UndocuBlack Network and Greisa Martinez who's with United We Dream on a previous episode of Solidarity Is This. I urge you to check it out to learn more about the DACA program.

Deepa Iyer:

Unfortunately though since we aired that episode this administration announced that it would be phasing out the DACA program. But all is not lost thanks to the momentum and energy of undocumented youth and their allies. I urge you to check out www dot we are here to stay dot com to find information about how you can support undocumented immigrant youth in their efforts. In their efforts to stand up for their humanity and dignity because that's what this is all about at the end of the day. You can learn how you can support a clean dream act in Congress, you can learn about how you can fund and support renewal applications for DACA youth, you can also learn how you can stand up for immigrant rights and human rights on the streets and in letters to the editor on your campuses and your community. Again that's www dot we are here to stay dot com.

Deepa Iyer:

Another issue that is timely is around the Muslim and refugee bans. Folks will remember that this is a policy announced by this administration in January, which restricted travel from six Muslim majority countries and suspended the refugee admissions process. People all around the country were very clear about how the Muslim and refugee bans are discriminatory and inhumane and in fact, the policy has been litigated and re litigated in the courts and it was expected be heard by the supreme court this October. There's been a pause in that process mainly thanks to the fact or not thanks to the fact really that this administration announced a third version of the Muslim and refugee ban in late September. But that is not stopping people from all over the country to raise their voices and being really clear that this band is an inhumane and discriminatory policy that affects people again, affects people's humanity and dignity.

Deepa Iyer:

I urge you to check out www dot no Muslim ban ever dot com where you will find information about events that people are organizing all over the country from Honolulu to Atlanta where they are putting together a mock tribunal, people versus the Muslim man. There are events that are happening that you can get involved in, you can organize your own events and if you're in DC or can get to DC on October 18th please come out to the National Mobilization that's being planned in front of the White House that day. Again, you can find all of this information at www dot no Muslim ban ever dot com.

Deepa Iyer:

Thank you so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed this episode and I look forward to hearing from you. Please subscribe, like, comment, give your feedback and let me know about topics that you might like me to explore on Solidarity Is This. Thank you so much for joining and I'll talk to you next time.

 

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