September 2023 Episode of Solidarity Is This

Finding Me - and this is my poem.

If I close my eyes, I can see them. And if I quiet myself, I can hear them. Their voices carry on the wind like the tune from chimes floating in the distant breeze. Who are you? Where did you come from? When you dreamed, what did you dream of? What is your story? What was your name before they gave you that name? Was the name passed down through our family? Am I your descendant? I stare at my face and wonder if I look like you. I try to put faces to shadows. Can I find pieces of your memory in cotton fields and red mud, scattered bones in unmarked graves that attempt to erase you from history? But you were here. You were always here. You existed. Unknown no longer. I found your name. I found you. And in finding you, I found me.

That was Hannah Drake reading her poem, Finding Me, from the banks of the Ohio River in Louisville, Kentucky. You are listening to the Solidarity is This podcast. I'm your host, Deepa Iyer. This past summer, Hannah and I met in person at the (Un)Known Project's public art installation in Louisville, a space that includes limestone benches and sandblasted footprints, depicting enslaved people who long to make it out of Kentucky and across the river to Indiana, a gateway to the north. On this episode of Solidarity is This, you'll hear more from Hannah and her collaborator, Josh Miller, about how they are curating artistic spaces and immersive experiences that honor the names and tell the stories, both known and unknown, of Black men, women and children who were enslaved and hidden in Kentucky and beyond.

On a personal note, getting to know Hannah and Josh has been a transformative experience for me. They have given me hope about how communities of color and allies are remaking Kentucky, a place that I have a complicated relationship with. You see, Louisville, Kentucky is where my family and I immigrated to when I was 12 years old in the mid-1980s. And it is the place where I was made keenly aware of all the differences that my family and I held. Those early experiences shaped my understanding of Kentucky in some negative ways. But now with Josh and Hannah's project, I know that it is possible for places to change when communities confront the truth. And that is what this episode is about, confronting truths through public art and immersive cultural projects that can connect communities together. This episode is the latest in our season, which explores history, memory, and solidarity through the lens of public storytelling. Let's get started.

Hannah and Josh, welcome to the Solidarity is This podcast.

Thank you so much for having us.

Thrilled to be here, Deepa.

So for all of our podcasts, we start by asking our guests about what their point of entry has been into issues of justice and equality. And I know there are many points of entry, probably, for both of you, but I was wondering if you could share a moment that catalyzed your interest in social justice from your life.

It's difficult for me to pick one moment, just I'm Black and I'm a woman. And so maybe being born, being born in America was the impetus for me being involved in social justice. Baldwin said, if you are Black and relatively, not even all the way, just relatively conscious, then you live in a state of rage all the time. So it's just by nature of being born in this body that I'm called to this work.

Thank you for doing it because it benefits all of us. Josh, what about you?

So I grew up on Lookout Mountain, Chattanooga, Tennessee area, and it was a pretty conservative religious community. I'm queer. I was kicked out before my senior year of high school and ended up relocating. And so that experience and a lot of the work that we've done over the past decade plus has really informed why this work is so important, why I'm actively involved in my collaborating and co-creating this work with people like Hannah is really one of the pathways forward.

So both of you spoke about your identities and how important they are in terms of the work that you have pursued for decades. And I think both of you know that I actually grew up in Louisville, and so identity is also important to me in terms of thinking about my own path. So Hannah, I was wondering if you could share a little bit about that context in Louisville when (Un)Known Project was emerging.

So when Josh and I started working on the (Un)Known Project, it was in 2019 and I think many of your listeners know around 2019, of course, who was in office and how this nation was shaping itself. And I always say Trump certainly didn't invent racism. Racism has been around, but it was certainly more vocal, more in your face during this time. And so even before that, I just think that people should address race and racism because it's a problem in America.

So we started working on this project in 2019, and then of course in 2020, Breonna Taylor was murdered by the Louisville Metro Police Department. And that sparked these protests in Louisville and really made people start thinking about how did we get here? How do we get here where a Black woman could be murdered in her home by people that were supposed to protect and serve her? And so I think this project was birthed during that time, unveiled during that time, and made people go back in history to see how we got here today. And the fruit of what we are seeing is because of the seeds of racism and enslavement in Kentucky.

And I had a chance to sit with you, Hannah, at The (Un)Known Project just this summer and feel being there and it was unbelievably powerful. But I want folks who are listening to have a sense, a visual sense of what the (Un)Known Project is. So Josh, could you actually describe for us what the (Un)Known Project looks like, its location and why it's so significant?

(Un)Known Project is an initiative with multiple components included within it. And so what Hannah and I and the artists that we have been working with were really thinking about is how do we use all different types of art, public art, poetry, performance and immersive experience to engage people around this history, the history of enslavement and try to shift some of their relationship to it, their understanding of it, and even thinking about how it ties into, like Hannah was talking about what's happening now and what does the future look like. The installation you got to visit On the Banks of Freedom, is what we call it, and it's located on the Louisville River walk between 9th and 10th Street. So it's overlooking the Ohio River. And during enslavement, Kentucky was a slave state and Indiana was a free state. So sitting at the On the Banks of Freedom installation, you can look across the river at what would've been the beginning of the road to freedom. If you could make it across the river, that would've been where you could start your journey north.

And so we really thought that that was important to think about the relationship of these states, the divide of the Ohio River, the role that waterways have played in the transatlantic slave trade. We have two limestone, granite and steel benches. And one of the reasons that limestone was incorporated was because when enslaved people tried to cross the river to make it to Indiana and begin that journey to freedom, if they were caught, they were often killed and left on the banks as a deterrent and their bodies would be covered in lime dust because of the smell. On the backs of the benches, which are granite, are engraved with the names of enslaved people that have been unearthed through the project. So over a thousand have been unearthed so far, and there are spaces that just say unknown.

There are some people whose lives we know existed, but we don't know their names. And along the edge of the platform are sets of footprints. Those were contributed by Black Louisvillians, and they represent enslaved people standing on the banks looking across to freedom, and are paired with the names of enslaved people. And then at the entryway to the platform is Hannah's poem, Finding Me.

So thank you Josh for giving us a sense of what the exhibit is like. Hannah, you've often said everything's already there, you're just uncovering it. And so can you share a little bit about the process of actually finding the names?

So for (Un)Known Project, and people ask me this all the time, how do we get the names, and it's people send them to us. They have this information in their families. Sometimes it's in a Bible, sometimes as we've gotten names, it's been in a ledger and often people don't know what to do with the information, typically because they're ashamed of what their family did. But I tell people all the time, you don't change because of shame. You change when you face the truth and the truth of the matter is those people existed and instead of continuing to enslave them by hiding them from history, you can set them free by releasing their names. But now with our website, unknownprojecttrail.com, people can upload the information themselves and it'll populate to a map and people can search that map for names and locations.

One of the things that I remember you sharing with me is that a lot of these names are coming from white people whose families actually enslaved Black individuals. Can you share a little bit about what do you think is one of the outcomes of a project like this in terms of moving towards reconciliation or facing the truth or solidarity?

For anything to change in this nation or in the world, we have to face it. A lot of people don't want to face that truth about their families because it's a tough truth and it's not going to feel good. I tell people all the time that history, you have history, it's like a cake. I say this all the time. And once a cake is baked, you cannot unbake it. You will never turn it into flour and eggs and sugar and vanilla or whatever. Again, it's done. And what we get to decide is what we are going to do with the cake at this point. And this can be a point of reconciliation by acknowledging that this happened. Instead of trying to hide the fact and create laws to hide the fact that this nation enslaved people, why don't we face that so that we don't repeat that again? And where we're going right now in this nation, it's like we are just rewinding time.

I appreciate that and I think you're right that the context of right now makes projects like these so much more important. Josh, can you talk a little bit about some of the experiences that people have when they encounter the (Un)Known Project?

The On the Banks of Freedom installation, for example, when we've had events there, we've had people show up specifically with the goal of sharing information from their family. So maybe their ancestors were enslavers and they will show up with copies of the ledgers. People who have never really thought about the relationship between Kentucky and Indiana, where that Ohio River and how close the beginning of the road to freedom could have been.

But Kentucky, and Louisville in particular, has really focused on bourbon and the Kentucky Derby and downplaying a lot of that history, which had such a pivotal role in a lot of the wealth that's been built, a lot of the way that the community was formed. So reorienting people's history to that has been really important. And then we also have things like the Journeys to Freedom: (Un)Known Project River Cruise that we commissioned. And so those are some of the different ways that (Un)Known Project is engaging them and thinking about that history.

Thanks, Josh. That's super helpful to understand the different components. Hannah, I'm curious about how you see this installation and all of the work that you're doing in Louisville contributing to the ecosystem of social justice in the city or the state.

I think certainly when people start learning about history, it explains, even the policing system. It will explain housing discrimination. It will explain the injustices that we see in our state and in America. It's not lost on me where this project sits. It's exactly almost where the Ninth Street Divide is. And even when you think about why is Ninth Street, why is this divided from the rest of downtown? Well go learn about that, because it's divided from the rest of downtown because the way they structured it and built downtown was to keep Black people out of downtown. But a lot of people don't understand that because many of the issues that we have, they think these things just popped up like they didn't originate from somewhere. And many of the problems that we see in our nation, you can draw a direct line right back to enslavement. And until we start talking about that, we can't really start discussing what's happening today.

And it's not siloed like it just happened all of a sudden, these injustices, as you say. So Josh, so we've heard about (Un)Known Project and how it is about revealing histories that have been untold. How do you think (Un)Known Project could lead to solidarity or understanding?

The ways that it's contributing are in part by reminding people that everyone has a role to play in this work. There are a lot of different people. You look at Hannah and I, Hannah's a Black woman. I'm a white queer person, and we are collaboratively building this project. And so part of what the creation of On the Banks of Freedom did, William Duffy was the lead artist, a Black artist who engaged a collaborator, Dave, who's a white artist. And so showing different ways that we as a community can come together to create the spaces for memorializing history, for honoring people's lives, for shifting those relationships.

So Josh, you all are also working with other communities in the South, I think, who are either trying to replicate something similar or you're collaborating with them. Can you share a little bit more about how that work is expanding and also, if folks want to get involved, what are some entry points for them to do that?

When we started (Un)Known Project in 2019 when we were planning for it, we're like, this is going to be a Louisville, Kentucky project. We're going to do an art installation with a few other components, and that's going to be the project. That's going to be it. And within two minutes of announcing this project, people started reaching out. So the way that we're thinking about that is in a few different ways. So how can we identify partner communities or organizations in other cities and other states who are interested in creating (Un)Known Project sites?

That could be a plantation. It could be a specific site that has historical significance. It could be a cemetery where enslaved people are buried. It could be a whole community and they just want to put a marker up to signify the history of the whole community. We're working with a few different sites right now that we haven't announced yet, but will be in the next year unveiling, which we're really excited about. Some communities we're hoping we'll want to do art installations like On the Banks of Freedom or whatever they co-create as a community. We've worked with our partners, additional partners in Louisville are the Frazier History Museum and Roots 101 African-American Museum.

Other than The (Un)Known Project, what is a site of public art, community-based art that has really stayed with you or inspired you and has had you thinking about solidarity and healing and reconciliation, whether it's here in the United States or elsewhere?

I think for me right now, undoubtedly would be the Mothers of Gynecology exhibit in Montgomery, Alabama. As we're doing this work, I'm finding it so difficult to find the narratives of enslaved Black women. So it's like the irony of this, even in enslavement, which there's nothing lower than that, that women are still buried. The voices of women are still buried. So I think about that exhibit a lot and how we can uplift the voices of enslaved Black women.

Thank you for sharing that one. What about you, Josh?

So one that comes to mind is the Holocaust Memorial, the memorial to the murdered Jews of Europe in Berlin. Even to see, I think they're called stopersteins, which are these little metal plaques that are outside the doors where Jews would have lived and have their names on them, sprinkled throughout the city. There's a directness in how they're dealing with that history and facing it, in part to say this is something that shouldn't have happened and won't happen again, that we in the US have a lot to learn from. So that's one that I think embodies a lot of what Hannah and I and our collaborators are seeking to do through (Un)Known Project.

Thank you for sharing, both of you.

You too. Thanks, Deepa.

Bye.

Josh and Hannah, thank you so much for joining me on the Solidarity is This podcast. You have taught me and our listeners so much. I hope that everyone can check out www.unknownprojecttrail.com for more information about the artistic spaces in Louisville, the various museums and now include unknown histories and even ways for you to document and participate in the project. We also have a resource page on www.solidarityis.org that contains reflection questions, pictures, and links to this project.

Take a listen to our past episodes too from this season, including the conversation between my colleague Adaku Utah and Mariame Kaba, and please subscribe to Solidarity is This so that you'll know when a new episode is being dropped. We will be back soon with the next episode of Solidarity is This. Till then, please take good care of yourselves and your communities.